tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012277645322483593.post5389450921729133878..comments2024-03-15T16:22:02.806-07:00Comments on dhamma musings: Of Relics And RascalsShravasti Dhammikahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06246408068143301108noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012277645322483593.post-73161768613127766872010-03-04T06:42:57.528-08:002010-03-04T06:42:57.528-08:00Hello. I don't have a live-in experience of Bu...Hello. I don't have a live-in experience of Buddhism to grasp and *know* Buddhist philosophy as an insider and so what I am going to say about relics and such comes from my own background as a Catholic using analogous comparison, since we have a living tradition of venerating relics and such.<br /><br />In my imagination, the Buddha that is the object of devotion is one day going to reveal himself as a trickster of a sort, tell us that he is really an illusion that is useful for us at this stage to bring us to a more enlightened state and then disappear. To be fair, I also imagine the mythical Jesus, or other divinities that we have created are going to do the same.<br /><br />And I suspect it is the case for any objects of devotion, such as relics. And the mystery of how these can be vehicles of our own growth lies not inherently in themselves but with our own larger unconscious minds. (I reveal a bit of my own Jungian research background here).<br /><br />There's a big dependency on a faith in a highly functioning 'Higher' self of a sort, but I do suspect that unconsciously, we use means of devotion to concretely work with deep internal unconscious materials. Perhaps to train ourselves in different ways of seeing; perhaps to reorientate our sense of self-importance and learning to live with a tremendous otherness. The downside or the shadow aspect of this is an idolatry that has grown so entrenched that we cannot pierce the illusion.<br /><br />What might be useful at this point is to ask how we can use projective devotions usefully without being slaves to the objects of devotion?tonus peregrinushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03353177139870392551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012277645322483593.post-16529330492464592942010-01-27T20:58:34.269-08:002010-01-27T20:58:34.269-08:00this reminds me of how historians say about the re...this reminds me of how historians say about the relics of the cross used in the crucifixion of jesus, which are so plentiful that they can make up a small forest.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07265290974590821666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012277645322483593.post-85047799923273441812010-01-27T14:46:47.661-08:002010-01-27T14:46:47.661-08:00Dear Celestial Horizon and Soe am i, you both make...Dear Celestial Horizon and Soe am i, you both make good points. <br />It's probably true in other religions, and in a secular life too - a beautiful piece of art may move one to a higher plane (so to speak) and help one's mind into focus. <br />But indeed Soe am i, if we become attached to such things (as I guess the majority of relic worshipers are) even the most holiest of holies can become an obstacle to progress. <br />For didn't a famous Zen master say (was it Dogen?) "If you see Buddha on the road, kill him!" for even the Buddha can become a barrier on the path to enlightenment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012277645322483593.post-73617693871725193252010-01-27T11:09:30.874-08:002010-01-27T11:09:30.874-08:00Dear Mushinronsha, C.H., on the topic of positive ...Dear Mushinronsha, C.H., on the topic of positive value of something, anything, be it relics, images or experiences or feelings connected with them, i'm reminded of a discussion with bhante where we looked at the simile of the raft used to cross to the other shore:<br /><br />"'This raft, indeed, has been very helpful to me. Carried by it, and laboring with hands and feet, I got safely across to the other shore. Should I not pull it up now to the dry land or let it float in the water, and then go as I please?' By acting thus, monks, would that man do what should be done with a raft." <a href="http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.nypo.html" rel="nofollow">MN 22</a><br /><br />To a skilled mind, nothing may be useless. To a skilled mind, anything that comes to attention may be raw material to fuel understanding, morality, effort, concentration; beneficial mental states geared towards the noble life.<br /><br />In this case C.H. mentions what might be called faith from her experience. Although a strong emotional support, we should recognize how far it brings us and also its limitations. So we can be ready discard it like the raft when we know it becomes a burden/obstruction on the way to freedom.<br /><br />Like a carpenter knows the limitations of his various tools or the programmer, the limits of various programming languages, i guess spiritual practitioners should learn the limitations of the various spiritual tools for moral and mental cultivation..]Soe am ihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09869851945241376624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012277645322483593.post-2706920249158508892010-01-27T06:21:46.100-08:002010-01-27T06:21:46.100-08:00Hi Mushinronsha, I've once queued for about 2 ...Hi Mushinronsha, I've once queued for about 2 hrs to get into a relic exhibition. At that time, I believed they were real as there was a big hype about it, rather detailed information leaflets, and highly secured container for the Buddha relic/s which I thought contained non-reacting gas, and probably because of naivety as well. And the positive effects of the experience? A sense of connection to the Buddha (however false it may be), something like what I would feel if I were to visit Bodh Gaya.Celestial Horizonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17483027101802716813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012277645322483593.post-23762049374319430222010-01-27T02:53:03.321-08:002010-01-27T02:53:03.321-08:00I feel a strange mix of amusement and pity when it...I feel a strange mix of amusement and pity when it comes to this kind of practice inherent in religion; something akin to schadenfreude I guess. <br />It appears devotees usually have all the facts at their disposal and yet seem to miss the point entirely. In this case Buddhists have the Dhamma - a most excellent body of practical teachings for the betterment of life - yet ignore it almost completely in preference to hoodoo nonsense unworthy of edification. Why? Is it due to a lack of education? Is it willful ignorance of reality because of an unshakable human need for the fantastic? Or is just another form of harmless distraction for the masses that makes a few bucks on the side for the few? Is there anything particularly positive to be said of these "relic" sideshows (apart from light entertainment)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com